2 Corinthians 5:18-19:
“All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation;
Ed- Note
Patrick j miron is correct when he gave us, meaning everyone who is a follower this ministry.
but patrick j miron's application may be different than scripture.
Ed- Note
Patrick j miron is correct when he gave us, meaning everyone who is a follower this ministry.
but patrick j miron's application may be different than scripture.
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation“.
ed-note
Again we see the distortion of scripture with Patrick J Miron,
because Paul said "Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation, all of us, deciples. not just roman catholic priests.
ED-note patrick "quotes it differently"
Note that St. Paul says his is a ministry of reconciliation;
it is, therefore, not merely a message. He actually does a service in order for the people to get reconciled to God. This is only explicable by admitting that he acted as a confessor--that is, people came to him, confessed their sins, and he absolved them.
Again we see the distortion of scripture with Patrick J Miron,
because Paul said "Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation, all of us, deciples. not just roman catholic priests.
ED-note patrick "quotes it differently"
Note that St. Paul says his is a ministry of reconciliation;
it is, therefore, not merely a message. He actually does a service in order for the people to get reconciled to God. This is only explicable by admitting that he acted as a confessor--that is, people came to him, confessed their sins, and he absolved them.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the Word of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 2:10-11:
What I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ, to keep Satan from gaining the advantage over us; for we are not ignorant of his designs.
Wow! Here St. Paul says he has forgiven people's sins....
ed-note
the "Lord's Prayer" where it says's forgive us of our Trespasses as we forgive others" Bla, Bla,Bla
Patrick j Miron continues with :
and he even explains that this was in the name of Christ, that is, he was present in him. It was, then, not Paul himself who absolved, but Christ acting through Paul. The addendum "to keep Satan from gaining advantage over us" might beyond that actually indicate that Paul was aware of the graces that are obtained through the reception of the sacrament of Penance.
There is also an appeal to confession in 1 John 1:9:
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
St. John is very plain here. He says it flat out.
Once again Pat J miron doesn't seem to comprehend that God will forgive us with out having a Roman Catholic priest present.
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
St. John is very plain here. He says it flat out.
Once again Pat J miron doesn't seem to comprehend that God will forgive us with out having a Roman Catholic priest present.
James 5:14-16:
Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.
Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.
ed-note
Patrick J miron delusion with a priest : Here we have an example of forgiveness of God through a priest in action.
St. James tells us that, if we are sick,
Patrick J Miron ; main thesis, is that priests are elders and only they can be the channel for forgiveness.
Patrick J Miron ; main thesis, is that priests are elders and only they can be the channel for forgiveness.
we are to call for the priests (=elders) of the church.
Are all Elders priest's-- no not the case..
Are all Elders priest's-- no not the case..
The is a direct Delusion belief and commentary of Patrick j Miron.
(it is also related to John 20:19-22, where forgiving sin's is what a disciple can do)
By the prayer of that priest, the sick person's sins will be forgiven; that's what the text says plainly!! Then James goes on to say, "Confess your sins to one another."
The is another basic Error of Patrick J miron the scripture actually reads as follows
James 5:13-17
New Century Version (NCV)
The Power of Prayer
13 Anyone who is having troubles should pray. Anyone who is happy should sing praises.
14 Anyone who is sick should call the church's elders. They should pray for and pour oil on the person[a] in the name of the Lord.15
And the prayer that is said with faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will heal that person.
And if the person has sinned, the sins will be forgiven.
16 Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so God can heal you.
When a believing person prays, great things happen.
17 Elijah was a human being just like us. He prayed that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years!
And Just Who is the ELDERS.. ???
1.. When you look at the exegesis of the time , you will find out the "Sanhedrin " was one body the was considered to be the Elders
The greatest irony, and tragedy, of the Sanhedrin is that they were devout men who truly sought to obey God - but had become spiritually blinded by their own ambitions and traditions.
14 Anyone who is sick should call the church's elders..
1.. When you look at the exegesis of the time , you will find out the "Sanhedrin " was one body the was considered to be the Elders
The greatest irony, and tragedy, of the Sanhedrin is that they were devout men who truly sought to obey God - but had become spiritually blinded by their own ambitions and traditions.
14 Anyone who is sick should call the church's elders..
but what does scripture say?
Titus 1:5 ESV / 12 helpful votes
This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you—Acts 14:23 ESV / 12 helpful votes
And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.Acts 20:17 ESV / 10 helpful votes
Now from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called the elders of the church to come to him.Acts 11:30 ESV / 8 helpful votes
And they did so, sending it to the elders by the hand of Barnabas and Saul.1 Peter 5:1 ESV / 7 helpful votes
So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed:Acts 20:28 ESV / 7 helpful votes
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.Acts 16:4 ESV / 7 helpful votes
As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions that had been reached by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem.Acts 15:2 ESV / 7 helpful votes
And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.James 5:14 ESV / 6 helpful votes
Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
Titus 1:7 ESV / 6 helpful votes
For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain,Titus 1:6-9 ESV / 6 helpful votes
If anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.1 Timothy 3:2 ESV / 6 helpful votes
Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,1 Timothy 3:1-16 ESV / 5 helpful votes
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? ...Philippians 1:1 ESV / 5 helpful votes
Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons:Ephesians 4:11 ESV / 5 helpful votes
And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,Acts 15:22 ESV / 5 helpful votes
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers,Acts 15:6 ESV / 5 helpful votes
The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.Acts 15:4 ESV / 5 helpful votes
When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them.Footnotes:
- James 5:14 pour oil on the person Oil was used in the name of the Lord as a sign that the person was now set apart for God's special attention and care.
Patrick J Miron continues with his personal commentary on how this is applied in the Roman Catholic Church
Here, however, Protestants make the mistake of lifting the whole verse out of context by insisting that it means "everybody is to confess his/her sins to anybody." Not true. Let's stick with the context. It refers to the sick person confessing his/her sins to the priest and vice versa
(the priest can, after all, encourage the sick person to confess his/her sins by letting him/her know about some of his own sins). Thus, verse 16 concludes or summarizes the preceding verses.
Here for 1 brief moment Patrick J Miron gits it
(the priest can, after all, encourage the sick person to confess his/her sins by letting him/her know about some of his own sins). Thus, verse 16 concludes or summarizes the preceding verses.
Here for 1 brief moment Patrick J Miron gits it
The Bible itself, then, proves that God has given human beings the authority to absolve others from sins--not on their own authority, but as tools of God Most High.
Besides all of those biblical reasons, there are also a few reasons that quite simply appeal to logic. In his book Catholicism and Fundamentalism, Karl Keating notes five of them (pp.188-89). Let me list and explain each of them briefly.
We ought to receive the Sacrament of Penance because...
(1) It is the way Christ intended forgiveness to be sought
Jesus never engaded in doing vain acts. He would not have instituted this sacrament if he had wanted us to seek forgiveness by praying "straight to God," by simply not receiving it. Since we have seen, though, that Christ did institute this sacrament, i necessarily follows that he wants us to make practical use of it.
(2) You learn to be humble
It is always valuable to look for the reasons why people behave the way they do. Why do many people avoid confession? Because it is a humble experience to tell one's sins to a priest and be honest about one's sinfulness! Very often it is the case that people who do not want to go to confession do not go there not because they don't believe in the sacrament's theology, but rather because they're trying to escape their own sinfulness. But here we remember Christ's words: "Whoever humbles himself will be exalted" (Mt 23:12). It is, then, a very good idea to learn a lesson in humility by going to confession. The sacrament humbles us. Consequently, we shall be exalted.
It is always valuable to look for the reasons why people behave the way they do. Why do many people avoid confession? Because it is a humble experience to tell one's sins to a priest and be honest about one's sinfulness! Very often it is the case that people who do not want to go to confession do not go there not because they don't believe in the sacrament's theology, but rather because they're trying to escape their own sinfulness. But here we remember Christ's words: "Whoever humbles himself will be exalted" (Mt 23:12). It is, then, a very good idea to learn a lesson in humility by going to confession. The sacrament humbles us. Consequently, we shall be exalted.
(3) The penitent receives sacramental graces
By receiving the Sacrament of Reconciliation, certain graces are obtained which, quite naturally, are not received when confession is omitted. The sacrament restores our spiritual life and, with it, pours out the gifts of the Holy Spirit on us. Who would not want to take part in such an event?
(4) You have assurance of forgiveness
We have all probably doubted now and then whether God has forgiven a particular sin. Maybe we weren't contrite enough, sincere enough, or did not have the necessary faith. This confusion does not occur when one is absolved of one's sins by a priest, because if you are not properly sorry for your sins, you would not go to confession to begin with. Furthermore, you can be sure your transgressions have been blotted out because Christ himself, speaking through the priest, has said so.
(5) You can get advice on how to avoid future transgressions
Malachi 2:7 reminds us that "the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts." After we have confessed our sins, we do not only get absolved from them, but we also obtain advice on how to behave, that is, what to do, what not to do, etc., in order to lead a spiritually good life. One can ask the priest questions about things that are unclear. Such is not an option for somebody who refuses to receive Reconciliation.
So, confession is very important for our spiritual life. The Bible teaches it, and it also follows from logic.
Jesus wants you to be as spiritually healthy as possible, and therefore he instituted this consoling and grace-giving sacrament. Now it's up to you to make use of it.
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